Bobby pins on kippot are assur!?!
This is one of the best posts that Dov Bear has put up in some time (well, not the post itself but the comment thread that is uproariously hysterically funny). He quotes his child's school handbook which declares that
I fully agree about not having words or names of 'organizations' on a kippa (though organizations are words, silly!). After all, a kippa is something that reminds us that He above us, is supposed to maintain a modicum of yiras shamayim in the wearer etc. and having "Mets" written on it is quite sacreligious. Nonetheless, the other regulations seem to, IMHO, perpetuate the myth that many in the yeshiva world are far too focused on superficiality rather than improving the penimius of a person.
...yarmulka pins, leather yarmulkas, crochted yarmulkas, or yarmulkas with words or the names of organizations are expreslly forbidden.I be a sheigitz because I wear both a black kippa sruga and two bobby pins!
I fully agree about not having words or names of 'organizations' on a kippa (though organizations are words, silly!). After all, a kippa is something that reminds us that He above us, is supposed to maintain a modicum of yiras shamayim in the wearer etc. and having "Mets" written on it is quite sacreligious. Nonetheless, the other regulations seem to, IMHO, perpetuate the myth that many in the yeshiva world are far too focused on superficiality rather than improving the penimius of a person.
posted by Michael at 2:29 PM
2 Comments:
I remember in Yeshiva they told us if our Yarmulke was falling off we either needed shorter hair or a bigger yarmulke. Talk about missing what's important.
It's all a part of the "there is only ONE right way" philosophy.
That line alone would be enough to make me think twice about the school (although there are some kippot out there that seem to almost defeat the purpose I will admit.)
Not allowing pins though is just stupid... you want the kids yarmulka to stay on or not?!
Shifra | | Email | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 2:18 pm | #
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DB, if you don't get out of wherever you live ASAP, you going to turn into the reincarnation of Barry Katz (if you haven't already).
It's what living around idiocy will do you.
J | | 08.19.05 - 2:21 pm | #
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So....what is OK?
And the poor curly haired boys who can't use clips.
In cleaning out the synagogue last year we found an entire box of red (very red!) yarmulkas, the awful satin kind you can imprint for a bar/bat mitzvah.
We joked that we could haul them with us when we davened high holidays at the church and look like a bunch of Cardinals.
Goldaleah | | Email | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 2:22 pm | #
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shiffy "there is only ONE right way" i disagree, as the netziv said "though i am a member of chovevie tzion,there are no zionist activities in volhozyn,a yehiva is JUST for learning" not poloticing
AMSHINOVER | | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 2:27 pm | #
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Only big velvet is okay.
I can understand wanting kippot without messages, but why no leather? Why no knitted? Why no pins?
Because we're not like "them" and we need to teach the kids that "they" are wrong?
DovBear | | 08.19.05 - 2:27 pm | #
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Yeah, the Great Kippah Debate spills over to ben/bat Dovbear's school books. This is just a ridiculus issue. A kippah is a kippah.
Little Wolf | | Email | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 2:31 pm | #
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Ahhhh....big velvet. Not a lot of big velvet out here. I forgot about that option.
But seriously. No pins? Active young boys wearing kippot without pins? (Or are these all active young boys of the really short hair variety?) Is this how you train them to be so well behaved?
(My son, whose hair is very curly, gets a pin for his kippah on shabbat. It's often just flopping held precariously by the pin. My daugther (age 2) who insists on taking one from the basket, too, let's her ponytails hold it up )
Goldaleah | | Email | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 2:31 pm | #
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Fight the power DB!
Shifra | | Email | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 2:32 pm | #
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you are right it is pretty dumb.but the bobby pins might be beged isha
AMSHINOVER | | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 2:32 pm | #
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but the bobby pins might be beged isha
Letting a boy kids hair grow for 3 years is beged isha
DovBear | | 08.19.05 - 2:35 pm | #
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Suede is still permissible! Go for suede! Too bad it's made out of baby animals...
Steg (dos iz nit der šteg) | | Email | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 2:37 pm | #
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I was thinking both those things- the same people who say pins are begged isha dress their little boys in ponytials, peterpan collars and italian kneesocks.
Shifra | | Email | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 2:38 pm | #
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Steg! present your case on the baby animals!
Shifra | | Email | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 2:38 pm | #
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"And the logic behind this is...?"
Conformity. Duh.
Mis-nagid | | 08.19.05 - 2:39 pm | #
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What about velcro?
Barefoot Jewess | | Email | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 2:40 pm | #
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if chatze shuir is assur min hatorah then me think bris millah is beged isha
AMSHINOVER | | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 2:40 pm | #
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"And the logic behind this is...?"
Because only goyim wear knitted yarmulkes.
Moishe Potemkin | | Email | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 2:41 pm | #
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"And the logic behind this is...?"
Conformity. Duh.
Is that what the school administrators tell themselves when they're writing the handbooks? Probably not.
DovBear | | 08.19.05 - 2:47 pm | #
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My Rebbeim used to make the same stupid joke if you wore pins 'it is a lightning hazard'
ari | | 08.19.05 - 2:47 pm | #
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Pins could be used as weapons.
"Names with organizations"? DB, that means you have to back out of that sponsorship deal your kid worked out with Pepsi.
Krum as a bagel | | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 2:49 pm | #
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Rats. I think it also means he can't wear his Hooters skullcap to first grade.
DovBear | | 08.19.05 - 2:50 pm | #
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Ok, here's a CLUE:
I wear a leather kipa with clips.
DovBear | | 08.19.05 - 2:50 pm | #
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yarmulkas with words or the names of organizations
Because the name of an organization is not a word.
DovBear | | 08.19.05 - 2:51 pm | #
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"crochted yarmulkas"
I think they meant crotched yarmulkes. That means yarmulkas that used to be used as jock straps.
Krum as a bagel | | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 2:52 pm | #
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LOL!
If that;s the case then logo's might be ok!
Shifra | | Email | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 2:53 pm | #
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"Is that what the school administrators tell themselves when they're writing the handbooks? Probably not."
Is that what the parents tell themselves when they put the mark of a cult on their child? Probably not.
Mis-nagid | | 08.19.05 - 2:53 pm | #
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The funny/sad part is this one might not actually be my spelling mistake.
I am so pulling my kid out of that school. Who wants to tell my wife?
DovBear | | 08.19.05 - 2:56 pm | #
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Shmah beni...
yarmulka pins: If you need a pin, it's too small.
leather yarmulkas: Offends the vegetarians.
crochted yarmulkas: might have been made for him by a girl, are often an expression of personality, create divisions between "haves" (girl to crochet a kipa for you) and "have nots".
yarmulkas with words or the names of organizations: reduce tensions between Yankee & Met (or Yankee & Red Sox) fans and between "Yechi-niks" and "the man's dead-niks".
are expreslly forbidden: They like the sound of those words.
Shabbat shalom.
Ben
Ben Sorer Moreh | | 08.19.05 - 2:56 pm | #
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DB, I would just send him to school with a crochetred yarmulke with leather trim spelling the letters NBA, with a giant clip attaching it to his head and se what they do about it.
Krum as a bagel | | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 2:58 pm | #
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Anyway, where could you get him into at this late date? The druggie school? May you can home school him. You can have him read your blog.
Krum as a bagel | | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 3:00 pm | #
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Looks like they still allow velvet kippot with little pictures of turtles sewed on them.
I could sew your kid some of those, if he wanted...
Anon | | 08.19.05 - 3:01 pm | #
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LOL!
Krum you are on a roll!
Shifra | | Email | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 3:01 pm | #
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what if the words "I PAY FULL TUTION$$$ " are knitted on it,would that be OK
AMSHINOVER | | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 3:01 pm | #
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If any of you have anything ridiculous in your kids school handbooks send them over,and I'll post
DovBear | | 08.19.05 - 3:03 pm | #
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If they think I am going to take off my leather kips w/ pins when I go to drop off the tuition check they are in for a nice surprise.
DovBear | | 08.19.05 - 3:05 pm | #
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"If any of you have anything ridiculous in your kids school handbooks send them over,and I'll post"
i got nothing other than the typical: "don't come within 50 yards of the school with any skin or hair showing or you will be shot."
Krum as a bagel | | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 3:06 pm | #
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Send your wife to drop it off in a bikini!
Shifra | | Email | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 3:06 pm | #
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it's a shame DovBear only has girls.
AMSHINOVER | | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 3:07 pm | #
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Mine was a little gentler... lots of bushwah about high standards, and setting an example, and so on.
DovBear | | 08.19.05 - 3:07 pm | #
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Mine was in yiddish so i'm quessing you couldn't read it.
AMSHINOVER | | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 3:11 pm | #
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Mine was in yeshivish style English so I could barely read it.
DovBear | | 08.19.05 - 3:13 pm | #
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Oh man - I do work for a little while and I miss THIS?
Seriously, if this meshugas doesn't clear up by the time I spawn, I'm sending the kidlets to public school, no matter what their father says.
(Go ahead, Amshi. It's been a while.)
shanna | | Email | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 3:15 pm | #
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Back in my elementry school, they didn't allow pins. The brilliant logic behind it?
If you have to wear pins either your yarmulka is too small or your hair is too long.
Absolutly brilliant!
Of course they could never come up with a solution for keeping them on our heads when we played ball.
Classmate-Wearing-Yarmulka | | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 3:15 pm | #
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shannanananna you ARE a brave women.
AMSHINOVER | | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 3:17 pm | #
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The allowed ball playing in your school CWY? kofer.
DovBear | | 08.19.05 - 3:19 pm | #
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Yes ball playing was permitted. But for saftey reasons we were only permitted to use Nerf footballs; not real leather ones. That reason was demonstrated when one day we were using a regular Wilson football. Of course, the "Rosh Yeshiva" stepped into the yard and a poorly aimed pass crossed paths with his head.
Funniest moment in my elementery school years.
Classmate-Wearing-Yarmulka | | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 3:26 pm | #
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Shifra:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suede
Steg (dos iz nit der šteg) | | Email | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 3:34 pm | #
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Page 4:
"Some are of the opinion that karate or judo lessons can channel a child's extra energy in the proper fashion. We strongly disagree. We have found that these children often do not know how to handle what they have learned. Being young and imature, they use what they have learned in an unproductive and detrimental way, such as on the playground, in the classroom, or on the bus. We urge you to find other ways to give your child enrichment."
orthomom | | Email | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 3:42 pm | #
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DB, reading your quote brings to mind the pesukim from this weeks parsha:
For what great nation is there, that hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is whensoever we call upon Him?
And what great nation is there, that hath statutes and ordinances so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?
Krum as a bagel | | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 3:43 pm | #
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OM -
Also, they might meet some aisian people in those clases.
DovBear | | 08.19.05 - 3:45 pm | #
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Apparently. Interestingly, upon scouring the handbook, no comment regarding yarmulka types. So I can sign that big sponsorship deal with Exxon.
orthomom | | Email | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 3:47 pm | #
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If your kid wants a Hooters Kippa, I have one he can borrow.
DovBear | | 08.19.05 - 3:53 pm | #
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Thanks. Does the yarmulka come in the shape of a...oh forget it.
orthomom | | Email | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 3:54 pm | #
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Orthomom, Yes.
Mis-nagid | | 08.19.05 - 3:56 pm | #
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LOL! That is what I call krum!!
Krum as a bagel | | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 3:57 pm | #
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hey now, is that OMOM in the picture? Yum yum!
andy | | 08.19.05 - 3:59 pm | #
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L. O. L.
I don't think I'm allowed to wear that when I pick the kids up from school, though. Then again, it's not in the handbook...
orthomom | | Email | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 4:05 pm | #
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Anyway, theyr'e all sold out.
Krum as a bagel | | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 4:06 pm | #
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> Thanks. Does the yarmulka come in the shape of a...oh forget it.
http://users.bestweb.net/~tgrupe...20on% 20fire.jpg
Godol Hador | | 08.19.05 - 4:11 pm | #
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But yarmukles are so...small. Oh, nevermind
No yarmulke cod pieces?
Goldaleah | | Email | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 4:18 pm | #
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GH, http://users.bestweb.net/~tgrupe...20on% 20fire.jpg
Mis-nagid | | 08.19.05 - 4:30 pm | #
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Screw Haloscan.
Mis-nagid | | 08.19.05 - 4:30 pm | #
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There is no power on earth that will keep a yarmulke on a small boy moving fast. And the powers in heaven don't seem to want to bother. Clips, pins, velcro--I say you do what it takes.
If beged isha is an issue, what about those 'kippa clip' thingies that are clearly sold for boys?
Of course, as a girl I'm presumably allowed to attach my yarmulke by hairpins, but I switched to hats anyway.
balabusta in blue jeans | | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 4:41 pm | #
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The best-known line in the Ramaz dress code used to be, "GAP-type T-shirts are allowed. Hanes-type T-shirts are not allowed."
The GAP: official outfitter of Ramaz Upper School.
elf | | Email | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 5:35 pm | #
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>Why no pins?
Years ago, I heard that a yarmulke needs to be big enough to stay on your head. A statement often attributed to Reb Moshe Feinstein, zt"l. I don't know if it's true. It's about as believable of the story that the U.S. Navy used to visit a certain person in Crown Heights for advice on building warships.
Al Gore | | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 5:38 pm | #
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T-shirts at Ramaz? I assume you're talking about the girls' dress code. I seem to remember the boys at Ramaz having to wear ties.
Steg (dos iz nit der šteg) | | Email | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 5:44 pm | #
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Boys in Ramaz most certainly did have to wear ties and collared shirts.
orthomom | | Email | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 5:55 pm | #
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If clips aren't allowed, how about a chin strap?
Willendorf | | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 6:10 pm | #
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>If clips aren't allowed, how about a chin strap?
How about snap buttons embedded (זכר ) in the skull? The other part (נקבה ) can be glued to the underside of the yarmulke.
Al Gore | | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 6:54 pm | #
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These kind of rules are ruining Judaism. Shame on your childrens' school. I don't know where you live, but maybe you should think about an alternative. [While it seems a petty reason to leave a school, it speaks of the mentalities in it.]
Ezzie | | Homepage | 08.19.05 - 7:00 pm | #
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DovBear,
I agree with Ezzie. Why aren't your kids in a more MO school?
the Jewropean | | Homepage | 08.20.05 - 4:08 pm | #
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All fun aside, aren't most schools with dress codes pretty strict about it? The Catholics school down the street mandates pant color, shirt color, and shoe color. If they wore hats or kippot, they'd prbably regulate them, too. How is this different?
GoldaLeah | | Homepage | 08.20.05 - 4:18 pm | #
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these are the same schools who cant understand why they create so many "at risk" oand in wayward youth.
I hate jews.
TTC | | 08.20.05 - 9:05 pm | #
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actualy i remember in school one kid wore a very stylish light green suit along with a suede yalmulka for shabbos, the next year on the hand-book it said that suits must be dark or black and you have to have a black brimmed hat for shabbos. (he ment a fedora, but i don't think he knew that was what it was called.) kinda sad no? good rosh yeshiva though. i miss those days. also the snow ball fights in the front courtyard. it was so very funny to watch the students sniping from the third floor window, and all of them stopping from throwing the snowballs at the rosh yeshiva when he came out (rumor has it the last kid to throw a snow ball at the rosh yeshiva was on his back in the snow from a snowball in the face before he knew what happened)
halfnutcase | | Homepage | 08.20.05 - 10:19 pm | #
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HNC,
I heard from Rav Reuven Feinstein (younger son of Rav Moshe, zt"l) himself that when he was younger he wore brown suits, pink shirts, non-black hats etc, in accordance with the styles of the times.
Of course his children and grandchildren don't, but that's because they want to associate with the yeshivish world which chooses to wear black and white. And while he doesn't hold of wearing tzitzis out, his grandchildren do for the same reason.
It's not about frumkeit; it's about 'fitting in.'
Michael | | Homepage | 08.21.05 - 1:04 am | #
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Idiocy kills individuality.
the Jewropean | | Homepage | 08.21.05 - 1:25 am | #
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So all private schools or schools with uniform codes are idiotic, or just those with rules about kippa clips?
Goldaleah | | Email | Homepage | 08.21.05 - 11:56 am | #
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(and no i wasn't justifying what that particular rosh yeshiva did at all actualy i think it was rather sad.)
and golda leah:
prohibiting kipa clips is stupid. dress codes are not.
halfnutcase | | Homepage | 08.21.05 - 12:05 pm | #
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What is the purpose of forbidding kippah clips? Are they afraid they'll use them as weapons, or something?
Rebecca | | Homepage | 08.21.05 - 2:03 pm | #
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I have seen a picture of the first chag hasmicha of Yishivas Chofetz Chaim: Plenty of white hates, and light colored suits. But this was like 1940, you know, before American was Torah True.
DovBear | | Homepage | 08.21.05 - 8:38 pm | #
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My day school went through a series of dress-code attempts during my and my siblings' time there. My favorite was when they banned blue jeans as too casual, but permitted denim skirts on the grounds that they were a "religious item".
I also heard that, when uniforms came up for debate, plaid was shot down on the grounds that that was what Catholic schools wore.
& | | 08.21.05 - 10:42 pm | #
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Dovbear, they seem to have left you may want to exploit. Get your kid one of those embroidered buchari kippas. No need for a clip since they're so huge and I'm sure the school will LOVE them. If you do, how much do you wanna bet they'll be included in next years manual.
Anonymous | | 08.22.05 - 9:48 am | #
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While I agree there are certainly more pressing issues than "the Great Yarmulka Debate", there are certain things that just don't belong on a kipa,no matter the size, color, shape or material. ie. sports teams, cartoon characters...etc. goldaleah had some good points there at the end. We r dealing with PRIVATE schools here. They can make any rules they want. if you dont like it take your kids out. i dealt with a similiar with one of my kids in regards to the TV issue. (yes thats TV. i figured on DB blog i would be able to use such terrible language)There is a yeshiva/school in hailaga brooklyn that requires a signed document that you don't have a TV in the house. Now I know people that have kids in that school and have TV's. The schools have to know that. But as long as they have the document they can portray themselves as a "frum" school. I don't like or agree with that policy (mainly due to the lying factor- I wouldn't know how to explain to my kid why xyz has a TV even though they said they dont). So I didn't even apply to that school. They have every right to make their own rules. If we send our kids there we must abide by them. NOT make fun of them. What kind of message are we sending to our kids? Is it ok to make fun of rabbeim/teachers/principles just because we dont agree with their policy (again it's a PRIVATE school).
SirRantsAlot | | Email | 08.23.05 - 1:24 pm | #
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Even a private school has certain obligations to the dictates of privacy and fair play.
And even when a private school outlaws kippa pins, we can say it's stupid and pointless.
DovBear | | Homepage | 08.23.05 - 1:27 pm | #
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DB,
We're all entitled to our opinion. Again I am not saying I agree with it.
It appears that they are trying to project a certain image and as a private school they are entitled to do so. I don't think thats playing unfairly.
SirRantsAlot | | Email | 08.23.05 - 4:10 pm | #
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Regarding Chofetz Chaim... since I went to a CC for High School and my brother is going for smicha there; and I now live across the street from the main branch...
There are still plenty of light hats, colored hats, light suits, and not too many white shirts or black pants. They have, and always will, rejected the idea that people must conform to certain specific dress. They do have a philosophy that people must dress properly, and one would notice that the "real" chofetz chaim people dress impeccably (sp?).
Ezzie | | Email | Homepage | 08.23.05 - 10:15 pm | #
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